tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.comments2010-03-31T22:18:08.065-05:00St. James Parish BlogWebsite Caretakerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01475619958859010389noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-33802258522415433712010-03-31T22:18:08.065-05:002010-03-31T22:18:08.065-05:001. What does God expect from members of his church...1. What does God expect from members of his church? We talked about the two great commandments – love God and love our neighbours. We reminded each other of the importance of “acting as we speak”: showing our beliefs in our actions. We should all act out our ministries/missions, doing what we are best able to do, and help others discover their individual ministries. We reminded each other we can all do more than we think. <br />2. What do we expect from our members right now? We thought we probably “under-expect”, but God does not. It is hard to believe Christians can fulfill God’s expectations, but that is an act of faith we are asked to make. “People need to reach,” said one. “Try to do more than they think they can.” The Bible suggests we can do whatever He requires of us if we let Him help us. How do we do this?<br />3. What kind of people already make up our congregation? We have a wide range of people with a wide range of talents, commitments, and experience. But we are missing two generations and will continue to diminish unless we act quickly. <br />4. How will that change in the next five to ten years? See above – we are concerned that the church membership will diminish naturally unless serious efforts are made. Here were a few more (and some repeated!) suggestions: (a) we could go from house to house with free Bibles and an offer to clean yards (b) we could offer food and games in the churchyard (c) we could offer workshops on current issues (d) we could distribute nice flyers inviting community to come to a meeting to ask questions about faith and social issues (e) we could visit houses at Hallowe’en dressed as angels and tell people they’ve been touched by a St. James angel, and tell them about some major event<br /> 5. What do our members value? Current members value the worship experience and the Christian family of the church. That’s the type of church we are. Some are very interested in the buildings and keeping them in good shape, many are really interested in preserving tradition. There is an almost universal value in the survival of St. James Anglican Church.<br />6. What are new members’ greatest needs? Most of us felt they need heartfelt welcome. We wondered if we could set up a kind of welcome committee, to offer a kind of mentoring into the life of St. James. It could be done with self-identification of committee persons, or a card we ask all attendees to fill out, and which we follow up on, to help people find their niche here. One person repeated the needs listed on p. 245.<br />7. What are our long-term members’ greatest needs? Again, one person listed the needs of all Christians, p. 245. Another person said that what the long-term members need is stability. It is more possible to focus on worship if you don’t have to adjust to new orders of service or kinds of ritual. They may also need respite, since some are doing a lot of church work. The greater one’s responsibility in the service, the harder it is to focus on the personal communication with God. Still another person talked about how hard it was to develop what Warren calls spiritual maturity – where is one to look for guidance? Some very helpful sources were mentioned: the Sisterhood of St. John the Divine; Esther de Waal’s book Seeking God; various texts by Thomas Merton; quiet days at the Cathedral. Keeping a spiritual journal is also helpful.<br /> 8. How can we make membership more meaningful? We felt we had been dealing with this, but perhaps the idea of encouraging people to start ministries, groups, prayer circles, etc. as Warren does in Chapter 19, was a good one.<br />9. How can we insure that members feel loved and cared for? We need to have a team of visitors to help the rector keep in touch with the sick or the sick-in-heart. That would be good.<br />10 What do we owe our members? Easy: love.<br />11. What resources or services could we offer our members? and 12. How could we add value to what we already offer? We should work out a new inventory, perhaps using the lists this group has posted.Sunday Groupnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-39151672607267612692010-03-31T15:45:51.328-05:002010-03-31T15:45:51.328-05:00Great comments once again. I am appreciating the d...Great comments once again. I am appreciating the depth of conversations we are having as a parish around Church growth. In response:<br /><br />I totally agree with the discussion of the use of the word "target." I want to emphasize the Church is NOT a business, it is the Body of Christ. Having said that, there are those we can appeal to and this can include all ages.<br /><br />For the youth, we have seen an example of potential in the youth concert/fundraiser. The church candles were lit, a prayer was said to start and finish, and in between was a concert. This is not unlike the approach at Springs.<br /><br />For the children, more activities like the Rector's Christmas party and the Lenten Fair. We have a talented group of committed laborers willing to help. A deliberate look at the nursery and building will help as we make it even more attractive. A group visited over Lent and was impressed with the windows.<br /><br />For the 50+ more fun and fellowship, like social gatherings. <br /><br />For seniors, perhaps a return to the familiar, like the bridge tournaments of past. Provision of rides is a key.<br /><br />For the small and existing groups, I have mused about a possible Rector's Community Fair," which basically showcases the various programs who make use of the building. You set up booths for children, ask AA and Lighthouse and Happy Mike's to design booths, have something for St. James, especially Sunday School sign up, and perhaps link this in with the Street BBQ.<br /><br />Whatever we do to tackle church growth, we need to understand the main component of our community, its Sunday worship does not have to change dramatically. Moving to one service time is a possibility, as well as ensuring we have good liturgy using both the contemporary, the BAS page 230 and the BCP Morning Prayer. This will appeal to many.<br /><br />We have the potential and the opportunity and more importantly, God is on our side as we partner with Him. Let us commit as a community to holding our church growth at the centre of our prayers.<br /><br />I look forward to bringing your suggestions to the wider congregation and especially to Program and Planning.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04751445495298675637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-18322641597669415582010-03-24T09:19:52.209-05:002010-03-24T09:19:52.209-05:00Interesting comments about "true" worshi...Interesting comments about "true" worship. Warren may be using this term as it directly ties to faith in Jesus. A believer, obviously, is one who has come to know Jesus and accept Him as Lord and Savior, King of Kings, Lord of Lords. It's something more to consider when we renew our baptismal vows at Easter. These are not just words we repeat. <br /><br />2. Good points about buildings and Warren's own view. A building need not be a deterrent. Our people are cozy in the building. Now, we need to look at our space from an outsider's perspective and do what we can to improve it even more.<br /><br />3. Ditto... This is a great attitude, as it will help us to remain open to new forms and styles of worship.<br /><br />4&5. Interesting comments. I think Warren's focus is on the attraction of crowds or visitors to the church. These are folks who may not have ever stepped in the doorway of a church, who simply are curious and want to find out more. This is where the "observing" comes in. After observing a few times, an observer may be moved to participation.<br /><br />6. Good discussion here. A seeker sensitive service is not going to be the same as a regular Sunday service, where edification is key and the church's regular routines are followed. Instead, we may be looking at an earlier time for worship or another day altogether.<br /><br />7. You are quite right on this point. Warren is helping us to understand the unchurched, the target, "Saddleback Sam" if you will. What would St. James John or St. James Jane look like?<br /><br />8. Indeed, this is why the church is relevant to the world. Our Gospel is one of Good News and our God loves us all unconditionally. Hope, healing, abundant love are commodities we know something of and need to remind folks of week by week. <br /><br />9. I look forward to the discussion on the types of service we may offer. You can have as many as you need with any number of ways to develop them. Our Worship Committee and our Program and Planning Committee will look into this.<br /><br />10. Indeed it is not. Personal evangelism comes as a direct result of your developing relationship with the One who knows us, Jesus. We are His followers, His children. Deeper prayer and study and worship will lead us to deeper mission and evangelism. <br /><br />11. This is indeed correct, so we have all kinds of leeway to create. There are many great creative minds at St. James. I look forward to gleaning those ideas, to taking some risks, to stepping out and to reaching out in unique ways. We need to simply get down to it and be creative. I look forward to sharing my ideas.<br /><br />12. I appreciate the honesty here. I believe we have many who are mature and confident. These same folks will inspire others as they bring them along to help. Our confidence in this area will grow as we take risks and step out in faith. Of course, education along the way will be key, so folks gain more and more confidence.<br /><br />a. Music is certainly key, depending on the "target" we choose. For example, the young people are gearing up for "contemporary" worship and are learning what that means for them. Sometimes, this means "loud," with drums, electric guitars, bass guitars, trumpet, etc. If we don't have that type of leadership in the congregation, we may have to budget for it. <br /><br />b. A small honorarium might bring the young who play the instruments. Along with the young come the young. As they develop what they want, others hear and are attracted.<br /><br />c. This is an important next step, the involvement of some of those who come to Happy Mike's in a service of some kind. We know the musicians themselves might, as they have in past. However, once all of our renovations are complete, we may host Happy Mike's in the church proper. This will give folks a sense of what our worship space is like. Keep up the good work. There is much here that contributes to future direction in our parish life. Blessings all!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11294034850293776437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-39895471880586002612010-03-23T20:39:56.005-05:002010-03-23T20:39:56.005-05:001. Most of us agreed only believers can truly wors...1. Most of us agreed only believers can truly worship God, though some had a bit of trouble with "truly". Who can judge what is true worship? One person even wondered whether sometimes acts of worship might happen almost unconsciously and therefore be impossible to evaluate. We had no problem with the definition of worship as “expressing our love for God,” and if true worship is a conscious act, then certainly only true believers can do it.<br />2. We agreed you don’t need a building for worship, but then talked about Warren’s detailed description of the importance of environment for attracting seekers. We thought some of his ideas (glass not wood, light bright colours not shadows, etc.) were his own tastes and we did not think them universally applicable. Some points (cleanliness, comfort, etc.) seemed important and we would agree they would help encourage seekers and believers to worship. <br />3. We agreed there is no correct style for worship. We have talked of this often.<br />4. & 5. We talked about unbelievers watching believers worship together with the idea that this worship is a powerful witness. We were not sure about this. Some felt that watching might be an encouragement, while others questioned its usefulness. Perhaps this depends on how people respond to crowds, a character trait that differs from person to person. Some of us did not think this a very important kind of evangelism. Others could see it better, stressing the concept that worship can indeed make God’s presence felt.<br />6. There was a lively discussion about what being sensitive to the needs and fears of unbelievers involves. Someone said this must NOT mean changing our deeply felt worship practices in order to make them more attractive to outsiders. Others felt that being sensitive might well involve making such changes, but only for the specific seeker service. We loved the translation of 1 Cor. 14:23 quoted, especially the last few words about unbelievers possibly feeling “you are out of your mind”. We felt this meant that sensitivity means making worship comprehensible, and very much agreed with that.<br />7. We agreed that being seeker-sensitive was not being shallow, but understandable.<br />8. We agreed that the needs of believers and unbelievers often overlap. We loved the list on page 245: it seemed to sum up the needs we all experience and hope to find partial answers for in the church.<br />9. We agreed that services need to be specialized as to purpose.<br />10. We agreed a seeker service is not a substitute for personal evangelism or mission.<br />11. We agreed there is no standard way to design a seeker service.<br />12. We strongly agreed it takes unselfish, mature believers to offer a seeker-sensitive service, and hoped we could find these qualities in ourselves!<br /><br /><br />How do we apply these principles? By designing seeker services. The major issues we covered were the following:<br /><br />a. The importance of music: We thought that the book is much too restrictive in its description of the kinds of music that should be used, and in its insistence that there should be music throughout the service. We felt well-explained silences often work very well for people. However, we agreed that, in setting up a seeker service, the tastes of those “targeted” should be considered. There was a lively discussion about using pre-recorded music, such as the MIDI band. Many felt this did not allow for genuine involvement of and response to those attending. We agreed that the music must be chosen carefully to fit together, and to suit language and tone of the worship service. There needs to be an overall plan.<br />b. The difficulty of finding worship readers/leaders representative of the “target” group: If we are lacking young people for instance, where are the leaders for the service?<br />c. We were able to imagine a very good seeker service that could be directed not only to young people, but also to the adult attendees of Happy Mike’s, since the musical tastes are very close and this particular group of young people and adults are comfortable together.Sunday Groupnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-21714152739406951142010-03-23T20:38:45.792-05:002010-03-23T20:38:45.792-05:00We raised the following questions:
Should we targe...We raised the following questions:<br />Should we target young people, because we don’t have them at church?<br />Would that be “reinventing the church” (see p. 180) and would that drive people away?<br />Do we need to reinvent ourselves, given that our attendance is 50 or fewer?<br />Should we target the over-fifties because that is the group we currently attract?<br />We did not come to any definite answers. <br /><br />We also have an uncomfortable feeling about the word “target.” “It sounds like a business, or advertising,” said one. Someone else pointed out that in some respects the church has to be run like a business, but we should be careful not to import the troubling aspects of business. Church management has to be transparent and avoid small group politicking. We decided we would prefer “potential membership” to “target group.”<br /><br />We noted that some of us had, ourselves, a mixed life-story with regard to church membership. We talked about patterns of membership, falling away, and return, and what these patterns mean. We talked about personal contact and how important such friendships are for encouraging return to church. Families with children appear to be more interested in church membership that those without. Older people often return to church after even decades of non-attendance. It seemed important to recognize that yes, there are groups to “target”, but there are also individuals to encourage.<br /><br />We returned to defining what group we really should be focusing on. We agreed on the following:<br /><br />1. We should continue to develop programs and practices that speak to our existing population, who are very loyal and hard working. We should be concerned with their possible burn-out and continue to consider their changing needs. <br />2. We should be thinking of the young families who are part of the parish and do come out on occasions planned particularly for them, such as Christmas with the Rector and the Rector’s Lenten Fair. We should be thinking of their need for child care at the church, a good space for such child care, learning groups that would support parenting, drop-in programs for parents with children. If we need leadership personnel for this expansion, we should go to them and ask their assistance. <br />3. We should think of the families with teen-aged children, and make sure support is offered to them in terms of parenting teen-agers, and their own personal middle-age life management. We felt that people in their late forties and fifties are a very important group to draw in, both in terms of their numbers (according to the 2006 census it is the largest population group, both in Winnipeg and St. James) and energy and influence for the future, as our aging population may dwindle from natural causes. <br />4. We should make sure we continue to recognize the small groups associated with our church, such as the Lighthouse program, Happy Mike’s, AA Membership, etc. We should have a very visible (but no pressure) open-door policy, using our imagination to create points of entry for them. <br />5. We must work to bring the young people to church. We listened with fascination as the choir director described the background for the Young People’s Seeker Service for May 2. It was suggested that perhaps the group might liaise with such groups in other churches, and thus be able to offer an on-going series of services. <br /><br />We agreed that a meaningful survey of the whole community would be necessary to reach new membership. We liked the survey on page 190, though many said they could not go door-to-door. We reiterate our idea of a block party/ bar-b-q to bring people to the church to chat with us about what they want from us. <br /><br />Finding the right times for church activities is important, especially for working people who might not like to come out in the evenings. Some felt we must make the building a more welcoming space, not only more physically accessible, but opening up the chancel area so that there can be more interaction between the choir and congregation, and so that church drama and other interactive events are more feasible.Sunday Groupnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-9797584541754749522010-03-21T22:56:36.940-05:002010-03-21T22:56:36.940-05:00Thanks for the very insightful comments. I would a...Thanks for the very insightful comments. I would agree with the assessment of the type of church we are.<br /><br />Thank you for your comments about the rector. I hope to be able to use my gifts of writing, preaching, teaching and pastoral care to build up the church, but this obviously will require assistance. I am thrilled with the amount that turned out to do this study for example. Thanks for the mention of the aboriginal community. If our church is open, there are many opportunities here, such as a Gospel Jamboree and Gospel Coffee House. I already have the contacts to make this a reality. I am still fairly new to St. James but my family and I have appreciated the support and prayers thus far. Now, on the issues raised:<br /><br />1. This is a good attitude toward the young. There is incredible potential here. If we are open to supportive encouraging leadership, the youth may welcome the opportunity. You will see this reflected in the coming days as we host a youth concert at St. James and Friday evening concerts. The youth will see our facility as a place where they are welcome and loved unconditionally. So far, so good. The best thing we can do is respond when we are invited to a gathering organized by the youth. As well, we can continue to pray, and involve our young people.<br /><br />2. The Mission Prayer is relevant. You can tell a lot of thought and effort went into producing it. As we repeat this week after week, we take ownership of the very essence of who we are at St. James. So far, I'd say we are doing a good job at that.<br /><br />3.Modeling is important, and as we continue to educate ourselves, we will grow deeper in faith. Witnessing to our God does not always have to be with words, though the telling of our story can dramatically impact others. It has been said that for some you may be the only Bible they will ever read.<br /><br />Great ideas for mission. I am particularly drawn to the life skills area. Perhaps in the library we are creating, we can have life skills bags that contain relevant material on family matters. This is one suggestion. There are many more we can come up with. I look forward to working with the Program and Planning Committee on moving us ahead on vision.<br /><br />Again, good work and I look forward to reading your next responses.<br /><br />Father Murray+Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11294034850293776437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-34083083829900562232010-03-20T20:20:18.508-05:002010-03-20T20:20:18.508-05:00Great comments from the group. My brief response:
...Great comments from the group. My brief response:<br />1. I agree we all would like more attendance, but success is not gauged upon the numbers of bodies in the pews. Author Warren notes the growth in church can come from the "crowd" or those who are unchurched or have no faith affiliation. Meanwhile, to prepare for anticipated growth, the entire church can think upon the quality and quantity of education. How many study or read the Bible? How many meet on a regular basis for nurture and fellowship and prayer? <br /><br />2. I would agree with that statement, recognizing some churches benefit from the transfer of membership to other churches such as St. Peter's, who received many from Christ Church Winnipeg when it closed.<br /><br />3. Great thoughts here. Any church such as ours need not be concerned about altering the main liturgy to suit a demographic not in the church. While newer material can be used, seeker services can be held at other times such as a Saturday evening or a Sunday evening or even midweek. At those services you can be as creative as possible. I highly recommend that.<br /><br />4. As Anglicans we have to be concerned about seamless changes and especially teach the congregation when new changes are made. Why did we do this? What will be expected of us? Having said that, the liturgies we use now are great. They simply require dedication to good liturgy. I believe we have that and I look forward to incorporating the best of our tradition.<br /><br />5. The word "evangelism" has come up and folks are suspicious or ignorant of the word. When Warren speaks of evangelism, it can be understood as reaching out to the unchurched, those who do not know Christ, or those who may have a very loose connection to church an faith. The story of our faith cannot simply <br />fall into one's head. Jesus gave the Great Commission which told us to go out into all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teach them to obey all that I have commanded." These are Jesus words to us. It feels strange to do this, but it does not necessarily mean quoting the Bible to folks. In its pure sense, it is modeling the very life of Jesus, so others will want to know Him and give their lives to Him. That is the essence of the Church. Its whole liturgy is to praise the One who sends us.<br /><br />6. I'm not sure what response to give without context<br /><br />7. This is very true. Everyone works hard, but they work as a team, and, more importantly, as a family, like brothers and sisters. In fact, we are brothers and sisters ---in Christ.<br /><br /><br />8. It's good to acknowledge this sentiment and to be honest. In reality, we have many dedicated Christians with essential ministries inside and outside the church. Members need to remember that from Monday to Saturday, in the world, they are engaged in ministry. There is never a time you remove your "Christian" hat and say I am now not ministering. In fact, the very loving things we do at home, in the family and in the community are driven by the Holy Spirit working within us. We can be proud of the depth of faith found at St. James.<br /><br />I highly concur with the suggestions for growth and can't wait to begin implementing them.<br /><br />Thank you for the insightful and faithful repose to the question. Bless you all!<br /><br />Father MurrayAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11294034850293776437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-62067541714793666872010-03-19T17:28:17.742-05:002010-03-19T17:28:17.742-05:00We began by agreeing St. James was both an Experie...We began by agreeing St. James was both an Experiencing-God Church and a Family church. It is not a Classroom Church, which some of us regret, though most rectors make sure to include new knowledge in sermons. It was mentioned that Anglican services did not provide the same freedom for ministers to conduct Educational Series of Sermons such as are mentioned in the book, since the services of the Anglican church are very much bound by the liturgy of the church year.<br /><br />We agreed we must now stress the “Soul-Winning” aspect of our church. One member cited instances of recent new members joining of the church, and how important these new members have been. It was helpful and hopeful to discuss this. <br /><br />In terms of Social Consciousness, we noted that our former rector was very much in the habit of bringing in social issues, and how our weekly prayers of the people currently reflect up-to-date connection with social issues. A book by two seminarians, called The Last Week, was mentioned, stating that sound worship has to be rooted in an awareness of social justice, that God can only recognize this type of worship. We found this a very interesting idea. <br /><br />We then considered the role of our current pastor in shaping our church focus.<br /><br />We could identify many of our rector’s actions as reflecting the “Soul-Winning” mission. He models for us the creation of opportunities for new people to attend church functions (for instance, Christmas with the Rector and the Rector’s Lenten Fair), as well as much encouragement of programs more loosely connected with the church (Happy Mike’s and the Lighthouse program). It was also mentioned that Father Murray brings a very special and personal connection with the aboriginal community. Social Issues are a very real part of almost all sermons. He has encouraged the Classroom aspect by ensuring that these Lenten Discussion groups have been created. We are very glad, however, that he recognizes the importance to us of the Experiencing-God and Family aspects of church. We noted how much of his time he has devoted to getting to know us and how we interact together, both inside and outside the church services. Many, many very appreciative comments were made as we discussed “the role of the pastor”!<br /><br />We wondered if #3 had a kind of “exclusionary” tone to it. We wondered if in fact we were always as warm and welcoming to outsiders as we should be. Some felt we were, some did not. Certainly we agreed it was everyone’s responsibility to work on this.<br /><br />Three important issues emerged from the discussion, and some time was spent on each. <br /><br />1. Meeting the Changing Needs and Life-Styles of the Community: This continues to trouble us, how it can be done when we ourselves belong to a different generation from the young people and even from the new kinds of families in the community. Warren encourages us to adjust to change and to be ready to embrace new needs and interests and incorporate them in worship forms and practice. It was stressed that everything, even the small things, such as musical tastes and abilities or teenage social needs and interests. can become avenues for church development. We need to watch for changes and the ways in which we can make connections with them. This calls for hope and faith and patience, not to mention openness to what is going on around us.<br /><br />2.Becoming a Purpose-Driven Church: We noted how very relevant our Mission Prayer is, and how it incorporates just about everything we would hope to be and do.<br /><br />3.Soul-Winning: We reviewed our attitudes to evangelism, and agreed that we are all most comfortable in modeling rather than instructing the kinds of attitudes and behaviour that we see as Christian, and showing in our lives how faith enriches us. <br /><br />We finished by listing ideas for the development of our mission: a lunch program; collaborating with one or more other churches in community based action; teaching life skills, like sewing, knitting, cooking, nutrition, managing a budget; a clothing exchange; a drop-in centre for pre-school children and their parents.Sunday Groupnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-451576121216940032.post-24548398969699396522010-03-17T12:53:19.070-05:002010-03-17T12:53:19.070-05:001. The only thing large churches care about is att...1. The only thing large churches care about is attendance: This myth does not apply to St. James. We want to have better attendance, and we agree that better attendance would mean a healthier church “ Large churches are usually entertaining.” “You would never go to a large church just to be seen.” “Large churches are real communities, and provide an encompassing life-style.” “Large church attendance is more comfortable than small, since you don’t feel so exposed.” We liked the five dimensions of church growth on page 49. However we are not very comfortable with evangelisms. We reminded each other that we all have our own ministries where we will use our gifts for God and to bear witness, whatever the gifts may be. <br />2. All large churches grow at the expense of smaller churches: No one felt this myth true of St. James. We discussed how church attendance has fluctuated at St. James, often reflecting parish attitude to change, especially rapid change. No one ever felt another church had robbed St. James of members, however, merely that people went where they felt more comfortable. <br />3. You must choose between quality and quantity in your church. It was at this point that we commented that perhaps NONE of the myths seem to apply at St. James. One member suggested that these pitfalls are more common to evangelical churches than to those where persons are baptized and made members at birth and therefore experience a deeper attachment to the church. However, it did emerge that certain persons have not always felt welcomed when they came to St. James, because they were different and because the existing community was so close. It was also agreed that coming to an Anglican church can be overwhelming since there are so many seemingly mysterious practices of standing and sitting and kneeling. “To bring in the unchurched,” said one group member,” we need very simple seeker services, perhaps 4 hymns, a reading and a message.” On the other hand, we need to remember that many come to a church such at St. James because they like the structure and formal practices. So we must keep open minds about newcomers, try especially hard to welcome them, and hope to be able to offer different kinds of worship opportunities for a variety of people.<br />4. You must compromise the message and the mission of the church in order to grow: We agreed that you don’t compromise the message or the mission, but the medium, the format. You have to be slightly open to change, over time. Group members talked about a kind of seamless change that had taken place at St. James, very constructively, over time. It was agreed that the forms of worship are important to people. <br />5. If you are dedicated enough, your church will grow. We found the book very helpful in pointing out how much skill it takes to develop and expand church membership, and how complex a matter it is. We need to learn how to do this, and not feel like failures before the fact. Vision is very important, keeping the important things in mind and trying to imagine how the church might grow and develop. <br />6. There is One secret key to church growth: One group member said to this: “I mean, really!” We found it nonsense, not worth discussing.<br />7. All God expects of us is faithfulness: Everyone agreed that people at St. James recognize how important fruitfulness is, and in fact many persons work very hard at St. James. <br />8. You can’t learn anything from large churches: We don’t think we think this at all. We may feel inferior (secretly) and intimidated (sometimes) by “more popular” churches, but we want to learn from these models.<br /><br /><br />We concluded with our own suggestions for growth:<br /> outdoor services (where folks could have a look at what we do)<br /> neighbourhood bar-b-ques<br /> potluck parties<br /> continuing support for Happy Mike<br /> church parades<br /> improved signageSunday Groupnoreply@blogger.com